and the question is, the one was necessary, the second was unwise and counterproductive and put us in a worse position than before. we need to look at defense spending the way we look at any other spending and say, hey, let's not waste any more money and let's not spend money on anything else we don't need. >> with that i want the audience to know that the price of showing up today was playing in the celebrity comedy contest next year. he has people on there he knows he can clobber. ladies and gentlemen, please give a round of applause to grover norquist. thanks for joining us. >> thank you. >>> and now more from this washington ideas forum with journalist charlie cook and chuck todd. they looked ahead to the 2016 presidential election and what's ahead in congress before then, including possible passage of immigration legislation. this is 35 minutes. >>> charlie, when i first met you 30 years ago, we were then talking about a republican lock on the presidency. we knew it was a center right country, we knew that social issues worked for the republicans, and we wondered when a democrati